I think a good example is Google and Kubernetes. Again, it’s not unique to open source. It’s interesting how there’s so many usages of licenses… And you’d mentioned the OSI approval process and how it was contextual in terms of Mongo’s intent of the license change, and the intent of the SSPL license in general… And you also mentioned the OSD and its criteria in your blog post on the COSS.community. Over 14 percent, or 260,000 employees, in the federal workforce have a disability. Users and their roles are discovered from on-premises or … Yeah. So basically, they want all the benefits of being an open source company, free marketing, free adoption, getting other people to talk about it, use it, whatever, but they don’t wanna pay the price. My name is Markus. Yeah, I think it’s cool. How does that trickle down to your open source then? Here’s the tldr for context. It’s insane on its face. We’re the makers of InfluxDB, which is an open source time series database. But the same goes with MongoDB, and their DocumentDB, I guess. So the mechanism there is really complicated. So let’s say I was a happy Elasticsearch user a month ago, and here I am today, and I’m like “Vicky, what do I do? For us, it simply means access for all. You can buy it from Amazon as a service, directly from Amazon; we do rev sharing together. They’re trying to optimize shareholder value. It’s a single installation [unintelligible 00:33:41.13] user model. How to Simplify AWS Monitoring with Logz.io’s Fully Managed ELK Stack and Grafana by AWS Admin | on 16 JAN 2020 | in Analytics, AWS Marketplace, AWS Partner Network, DevOps, Intermediate (200), Open Source | Permalink | Comments | Share. So what that means, if you look (say) at the GPL, it specifically says that the license doesn’t control the user of software… So that is where the issue comes to play… Because the cloud providers are users, and so under (say) GPL they basically don’t have any conditions at all. Here’s the tldr for context. So that’s something that users have to decide for themselves. So in fact I would say it’s recommended for open source companies to make sure that they are able to build a successful business, just like Amazon is building, just like everybody else is building… And so the motivation to make money out of inventions is completely justified, on (I would say) moral grounds. I think SSPL is looking pretty attractive. It was a long time ago. But what that means is we are developing a commercial product side by side with the open product right now, so that if cloud providers decide they wanna get in on the game three years from now, we’ve already had plenty of time to actually build a product to compete. And it could be that as you evaluate this and you look at it, it makes sense to just pay Elastic for their software. Have you read what AWS has had to say, and what’s happened after the relicense? Paul Dix is the co-founder and CTO at InfluxData and shared his perspective on running an open source business, how InfluxData is innovating their commercial offering while having a permissive MIT licensed version of InfluxDB. And again, they’re not saying “If you build a commercially-successful product using our software, pay us.” They are not saying that. Plus they’re going to assign a world-class engineer to your account to provide guidance and answer any questions. AWS tutorial provides basic and advanced concepts. ELK stack is an environment that lets you collect and visualize your logs with: Elasticsearch for search and data analytics; Logstash for centralized logging, log enrichment and parsing; Kibana to visualize data; Requirements. The first was technical commentary about whether the license met the open source definition. Because you might say it’s a bad thing because it doesn’t reflect the way that modern software is developed and deployed into consumer’s hands. They did that once before with the Elastic Open Distro, and I think people were really concerned about how that would pan out… And Elastic’s share price has not decreased too much, right? Is there anything else that you wanna share that we didn’t ask you? It’s not just Elasticsearch. Coming up in this segment, we’re talking with Paul Dix, co-founder and CTO at Influx Data. But that essentially is this criteria for getting it passed. So the sideswipe is a big problem; the fact that so many people might upgrade, and unbeknownst to them, their agreement with the software that they’re running and the companies involved has changed. And if your stuff is on all three of those platforms and it’s not on the others, how many eyeballs do you get that Cockroach doesn’t? I prefer “Open code is open, closed code is closed.”. It was very helpful for us to sort of get a different perspective on these concerns around open source. Sorry if I’m getting that wrong. And I was gonna ask you about that, because it seems like, with your cloud too that you mentioned, you can obviously push forward, but it’s downstream; the open source is downstream, and it seems like maybe it’s just disconnected, basically. So it’s more permissive than a GPL. Are you aware of that? And if you look at where Elastic makes its money, it’s probably mostly from log search. FedRAMPâs approach saves an estimated 30-40 percent of government costs, as well as both time and staff required to conduct regular agency security assessments. But the bigger problem is that this is a license change. Featured CourseHappy customers are loyal customers. Amazon Web Services. Yeah, of course. Here’s the conversation with Adam. Well, I would remind people that the alternative is probably to go to a source available license. And the thing is, we don’t have to worry about our open source bits competing with our commercial bits…. Now, we use some of the libraries from InfluxDB 2.0, but it’s not even like a fork of the project; it’s literally two separate projects and products, and they have the same API. So there’s no reason for people to put control plane bits into the main open source project. If I’m understanding correctly, it’s kind of like the open source bits is like the core software offering, and then the proprietary stuff is like a management controller, or like a deployment type of a thing. Well, Heather, thank you so much for joining us and explaining these things in ways that we could only fumble around in the dark to understand. Here we go. Amazon’s saying “Oh, we’re protectors of open source, so we’re gonna launch this fork”, or whatever. Last up on this epic show is Markus Stenqvist, who self-describes as an everyday web developer from Sweden. I don’t know what to do.” What do you say to that? I even quit my job and decided to dedicate my full attention to it. I do think, on the question of business risk – this is the way I look at it… I work with many, many companies to develop open source compliance policies… So what companies do when they develop those policies is they have a stop/go caution list… And you would not expect even AGPL to be on a go list. I migrated to an AWS-managed solution to for two reasons: 1) to … There’s a partner channel, where maybe the guy at Pivotal, who was consulting on your Cloud Foundry deployment, tells you that you should use Redis. But as soon as they do that, if the top of the funnel was fixed, if that created no more interest in your product than it did before, then you’d be right. I think it has all that matters, I feel, in my opinion, to be open-source-approved. I do think that Amazon was rolling the dice on that one, and they lost, and I think they will lose in that particular trademark thing. Exactly. You’d love to get 100% of them, but you know that you won’t. Right. So Amazon’s claiming they have the moral high ground, and it’s not true. They’ll probably survive another attack from AWS. But if you were today, when you read the relicense, you would have been pro-Elastic? But that isn’t the world we live in anymore. Vicky has been in free and open source software for 30 years now, and she’s been working with startups and enterprises doing open source and free software business strategy for quite a while. How much do you rely on that Elasticsearch, or on that Kibana? So from a pure mercenary investor perspective, I’m long Mongo but I’m short Elastic, and it has nothing to do with the license. It is one of the best place for finding expanded names. Because my only hedge is the business arrangement. Actor… Yeah, I was gonna say, just call him an actor. Well, we’re glad we’ve got you on the show then. This is actually one of the things that I agree with Amazon about, where they said the reason they created the open distro was because Elastic was polluting the open source repo with code under different licenses; under the Elastic license, and stuff like that. But I think one thing that we should probably take away from Elastic’s stuff is that the holy grail of license here is to – so if you look at Elastic’s license as well, it’s divided into two portions. It depends upon your needs. ACRONYMS & ABBREVIATIONS; BABY NAMES; AWS Full Form. Now is the perfect time to brush up those business skillsLearn real-world strategies for creative problem solving, improved communication skills, team-building and leadership, and so much more. Amazon Lumberyard A free cross-platform 3D game engine, with Full Source, integrated with AWS and Twitch. We have an awesome show today. We’re not doing that yet. A good example is Elastic. AWS Full Video Tutorials | Learn in 3 Hours | Must Watch it! Following is a list of commands that can be used for managing the AWS ECS service. It’s very difficult to serve both easily. You have been. Knowledge of all components of the ELK stack and ideally the candidate will have experience of the full ELK stack implementation for applications running on AWS (not less than 3 full-stack implementations). So all [unintelligible 00:54:35.27] we have spent a lot of time and effort into building, and this is our main source of living, right? One channel will be “I’m an open source user of your software. AWS CLI. “It restricts cloud service providers from offering our service as a service.” That’s in violation of OSD 6. No, I think people that are on Amazon’s side should maybe read the article from Frederic Lardinois…. You say that the SSPL should be, or could be open source. Do you know what you’re taking on? Here we go. Yeah. The bottom of the funnel is customers, people who pay you money for the privilege. The price of being really open source is that you’re giving software away for free, yes, but –, You’re being permissive, but that also means that anybody could take your software and compete with you, which you have to be okay with. There are a couple of forks now - there is, as we all know, the thing that kicked all this off, which is Amazon’s open distribution for Elasticsearch, from the last time Elasticsearch did something kind of goofy in the open source world… And then they have their new, totally open distribution that Amazon just forked… And I think there’s a third one, which is from Logz.io, something like that… There’s at least one other version out there; there may be others… And maybe you don’t need Elasticsearch at all. The business-model war between open-source software vendors and cloud providers heats up with Elastic taking on Amazon Web Services. Learn the fundamentals of ITIL® 4 Master the fundamental concepts and terminology used in the ITIL service lifecycle as you prepare for the ITIL Foundation certification. So Elastic is just upset because Amazon outcompeted them on the hosting front… Whereas other hosting providers, like Compose, and [unintelligible 01:19:28.08] and stuff like that, didn’t really make a dent in Elastic’s top line. More pragmatic. It’s the way by which you think your software could be consumed by anybody, without necessarily having to pay you. Yes, I helped MongoDB draft the license, with of course the help of Mongo legal counsel and their business team. Learn how to manage a remote team, and make collaboration easier than ever. Learn how organizations across the globe have benefited from using Skillsoft. Stay up-to-date with the latest news and press releases from Skillsoft. There were also a lot of comments about who had drafted it, the process by which it was drafted, and what Mongo’s intent was in creating the license. Yeah, go to a major version. It’s not the move I would make… To be totally honest though, to me it’s not really about a license choice, it’s more about how they intend to drive innovation that drives commercial value. What’s your take on that? Built on top of Apache Lucene (it itself is a powerful search engine, all the power of Lucene easily expose to simple configuration and plugins, it handles human language … So that would be source available, if you say you can’t use a software for this purpose. The SSPL license is a result of her work with MongoDB, and we wanted to understand the design and the intention of the license. Last year - or I guess late 2019 now - we launched basically version two of our cloud product, and that essentially is a very different kind of thing, because it’s not just a database, and it doesn’t look anything like the open source software that we create. And you know, if you look at SSPL, the server-side public license from MongoDB, I’m actually still a bit baffled that it’s not approved by OSI… Because it to me is a fork of [unintelligible 00:48:23.03] GPL, just like AGPL is, which also makes GPL a bit more permissive; if you look at AGPL, it allows you to not have to release your source code if you are using Git over the network, or something of that sort… I forget exactly the details there. AWS Greengrass Local compute, messaging, and sync for devices. But I’d say those were the main themes. Newsletter sign up. David Cramer has shared some of his sentiment on that subject, because Sentry was licensed BSD 3, and transitioned to the BSL. And what you’re trying to do is get people from the top of the funnel to the bottom of the funnel. There are business models, and then there is open source. What’s the deal? Internally, we have a separate team that works on the open source bits, versus the people working on the closed source cloud product. I’m just curious; where do you get your info? Submitted by Anushree Goswami, on January 15, 2021 . This isn’t blindsiding you, this concern. Project management fundamentals Develop in-depth project management knowledge and skills based upon the Project Management Institute's PMBOK® Guide. Yeah. The piñata buck starts to get … If you’re using Kibana–. Another channel would be my boss, the CIO, heard about Redis in the CIO Magazine. Now that we're on the same page about what a case is, let's talk about when to open one. I will say “I don’t know, it depends.” Of course, I have been known to do a fair bit of consulting, and so any consultant who isn’t starting up with “It depends” is trying to sell you something. Just the sheer magnitude of what’s possible is really high. By the way, I say that because that’s what they say. Anything else that we didn’t ask you, or anything about the license itself, or about the situation that is being discussed/debated that you wanna say, that we haven’t asked you about? It’s potentially a disaster waiting to happen. How I think about it, and how a lot of people in the modern era of software startups think about it is, in the smallest nutshell, you can imagine that you have this funnel. The other thing is we wanna be able to offer that as an on-premise piece of software. If you’re a successful open source project, that channel is full of people, because lots of people are using the software, and that’s why it’s successful open source software. Is it not something that people are aware of, or how does it play out? The means of distribution have changed. Building … The answer “A ton of eyeballs! Yeah, because a cloud provider is a user essentially, right? We really appreciate you coming on the show. That’s the route that most companies went down. And for us with IOx, I’ve already defined what success looks like is tons of competitors. So what’s happened since is that AWS has forked both Elasticsearch and Kibana, and are going to carry on open source forks - community forks, as they’re being pitched as. How many log search companies are built on top of Elastic, and they just open that up? Mongo, on the other hand, wanted to see if they could create a license that was an open source license, but that managed this issue. So all of those things were being discussed. Full Form Category Term; Advanced Wireless Services: Telecommunication: AWS: Statgraphics Data: File Type: AWS: Amazon Web … At that time there were actually quite a few companies, and most of these, by the way, were companies in what I would call the platform software space, or middleware software space. And so do you think that – I mean, I don’t know if bias is… As the author of the SSPL, do you believe that the SSPL represents even the spirit of open source, if it’s not officially an open source license, or do you think it’s something different? I used to manage a licensed ELK cluster. And the full title of it is “The server-side public license”? Take DataStax, for instance. Yeah, it’s a bit disconnected. The problem with that is you don’t get that many cycles of iteration, and each release is super-painful to do, because there’s so much code wrapped up in it… So I really wanted to move to a continuous delivery model, so we could get much faster feedback, features out to customers quicker, and the individual releases would be much, much smaller. But this is not something that you as a company can afford to ignore, because it can have huge ramifications to your codebase. So the fork still exists under the new fork, which is created by Amazon, and trying to carry on from that point forward… It still exists under the previous license. A good example here is if I’m MongoDB and I sell Atlas, which is their hosted SaaS product for MongoDB, and Amazon and Microsoft are both gonna offer MongoDB as a service - that competes with me to monetize the bottom of the MongoDB funnel. We use Vicky’s post titled “Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks” as a reference on this situation, and we even quoted her post a few times in our conversation with Heather Meeker… So naturally, we had to talk with her. And from what I understand, they’re not trying to build a Dgraph alternative… But there is something there where if a bunch of companies are talking about the same “curious actor”…. And then you add to the fact that there’s no R&D, there’s no development costs from Amazon’s side, so you’re not competing with them on features. We hope these Amazon Web Services Tutorials are useful and will help you to get the best job in the industry. What does that do to cement MongoDB as an excellent choice for users at the top of the channel? She wrote the book Open Source for Business, and it serves as a guide to open source software licensing. Look at your needs. We don’t care what you’re doing, because all we want to do is screw over Amazon, and collateral damage be damned.”, So they should have communicated, they should have told people “This is going to be coming.” Maybe they should have done it, for instance, at version 8.0…. Full stack developers are used for different reasons. But I don’t think they have any plan to do it, because that’s not how they operate. The value of the channel is that it’s massively huge. This comes back to something you were saying, and your stance for - not 2.0 in terms of Influx what you’re doing, but the next version; I think you called it IOx, this maybe version 3.0, I’m not sure what you call it, but… You said by design it’s permissive, and you’ve designed your architecture in terms of commercial offering to expect other competitors… Whereas it seems like Elastic, based on what you say and others have said, and even kind of what they’re depicting, is that they’re upset that Amazon is eating their lunch… And it’s not by design. Customer success = your success It's time to become customer obsessed. Hm. So if you use discriminatory in that way, then GPL2 is discriminatory, because it only applies certain conditions to redistributors. Capacity providers comprise of a name, an Auto Scaling group along … Our transcripts are open source on GitHub. Is that the case with Mongo or with Redis, or was that unique to Chef? That’s what it seemed like. This service almost all around the world because as we know that Amazon is a very large firm in the Internet industry. And it’s kind of odd [unintelligible 00:33:21.14] individual installations, but they are providing it to many. And in that moment, your ability to capture that revenue - every single one of those cut-rate DocumentDB users is a potential lead that’s already using your product. 'Elcor Corporation' is one option -- get in to view more @ The Web's largest and most authoritative acronyms and abbreviations resource. So their claim, like “Oh, we have to do this” - like, no, you don’t. You’re baffled, as you said, that it’s not…. But I think what’s interesting about that is that what OSI is doing is trying to create community consensus, and isn’t wedded to this written definition. Because if the question is “Can I as the primary producer of the product, and owner of the brand, and the reason that people attach to those things, outcompete someone who is essentially selling a generic version of what I sell - if I can’t outcompete that person, shame on me.” You really can’t convince a customer that the best person to service their MongoDB is MongoDB? The reason that companies adopted them in a dual licensing strategy is that they were intending that people who are using the software commercially would probably have to come negotiate for a license. Anything that you can really call a platform is only a platform if the total economic activity of it outstrips that of any single vendor. SSPL is used as part of a dual licensing model, and that is something that has been around for a long time, but it’s not as popular as it once was. So they’re nervous about it. I see. A task definition is a text file in JSON format that describes one or more containers that form your application. Before, we looked very much like an enterprise software company. A lot of the concern isn’t really elsewhere in it. It has nothing to do with open source versus closed; it has everything to do with software delivery cycles. Grafana Cloud – Grafana Cloud is our dashboard of choice – Grafana is the open and composable observability and data visualization platform. They’re just doing what’s best for their customers and their shareholders. OSD is very clear; it hasn’t changed in a long time. With Skillsoft, the USO developed a standard learning program for new hires to complete within 90 days. Pick a license. So if I am a big company and I need to build a product, I can provide it as a service to my other teams in the company, just not to your users directly. Maybe cut a major version right there. Much like you’d manage from your AWS Console. In 2009, I decided to do it again, and started to write a brand new project called Elasticsearch. AWS IoT Analytics Analytics for IoT devices. It also says that it can’t discriminate against users, or technology contexts, and so forth. It seems like you still make those decisions, you just make them in – the two pieces of software are further apart, perhaps. You must have heard the name of AWS, but you will not know much about this topic, so today our team of FullForms Detailed will tell you the complete information of AWS, So let's start the AWS Full Form in detail. So you kind of screwed the trust of your community, and you’ve besmirched your brand, which is going to be incredibly difficult to fix. The primary concern with the SSPL really is Section 13. The following is the architecture of ELK Stack which shows the proper order of log flow within ELK. On January 21st, Elastic posted a blog post sharing their concerns with Amazon/AWS misleading and confusing the community, saying “They have been doing things that we think are just NOT OK since 2015 and it has only gotten worse.” This lead them to relicense Elasticsearch and Kibana with a dual license, a proprietary license and the Sever Side Public License (SSPL). Fortinet has developed a dynamic user identity mapping methodology. The term Full Stack is related to the developer who develops the server software for both client and server. The mean stack is used for the development of the website. Time will tell, of course. I think that’s a heavier lift, and it’s a bigger ask for users to replace their open source bits. So what are they looking to do? And they can still build a commercial product on it, just not a competing service. You’re no longer sending a binary or source code to be compiled by a bunch of people, you’re setting up a service and then charging for the service. Maybe you could have forked it internally, and start developing internally, and then leave the open source project alone for other people to build upon… And you can even push stuff upstream and pull stuff downstream; you can still benefit from that, while having your proprietary, internally-developed software. It is the bringing together of several components including: developers, authoring tools, users, web browsers, and evaluation tools and using a holistic approach to create content that everyone can access. Take the next step in your compliance journeyWhether you're new to the world of software development and IT operations known as DevOps, or you're exploring new approaches, look no further. So it was really pioneered by MySQL, and so what they did was they said “Here’s our software, it’s under GPL (actually, they used a variant of GPL), and if you don’t want to abide by the GPL requirements, you can negotiate with us for a commercial license.” That’s a process that’s sometimes called “Selling exceptions.”. [unintelligible 00:56:21.04]completely fine. Their model is not by design to be competed with. This is a Terraform module that will provision an ELK (Elasticsearch, Logstash, and Kibana) server on an AWS EC2 instance. How does InfluxDB, the open source benefit or not benefit from this switch?
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